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* "It's truly shocking how many many psych majors seem to think their bachelor's is impressive." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/z8rev/theres_this_fun_little_tradition_people_have_when/c62n5sl?context=3 2012])
 
* "It's truly shocking how many many psych majors seem to think their bachelor's is impressive." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/z8rev/theres_this_fun_little_tradition_people_have_when/c62n5sl?context=3 2012])
  
* "You're not getting the complaint. '''"You're a bleeding heart idiot" is just one way of conveying, "be pragmatic, life isn't sacred."''' Trying to maintain some sense of the universal sanctity of human lives is unproductive and really won't get anyone anywhere. It's a kind of stubborn idealism that is utterly arbitrary in its nature (why human life, but not animal life? Why animal life but not plant life? Why plant life but not insect life? Why insect life but not microbial life?) and almost entirely unworkable in practice. It sounds good, but is ultimately facile.
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* "You're not getting the complaint. "You're a bleeding heart idiot" is just one way of conveying, "be pragmatic, life isn't sacred." Trying to maintain some sense of the universal sanctity of human lives is unproductive and really won't get anyone anywhere. It's a kind of stubborn idealism that is utterly arbitrary in its nature (why human life, but not animal life? Why animal life but not plant life? Why plant life but not insect life? Why insect life but not microbial life?) and almost entirely unworkable in practice. It sounds good, but is ultimately facile.
'''Furthermore, it's perfectly acceptable for someone to be glad someone else is dead.''' The person who expresses that notion isn't going to win any prizes for magnanimity, but is vital to the everyday functioning of society. We need those people, just like we need the deviants they often come to despise (what the optimal percentages of these groups in the population might be, who knows). In opposing each other, such groups keep each other in check, and the social system trends toward a productive equilibrium state.
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Furthermore, it's perfectly acceptable for someone to be glad someone else is dead. The person who expresses that notion isn't going to win any prizes for magnanimity, but is vital to the everyday functioning of society. We need those people, just like we need the deviants they often come to despise (what the optimal percentages of these groups in the population might be, who knows). In opposing each other, such groups keep each other in check, and the social system trends toward a productive equilibrium state.
 
Maybe I shouldn't be trying to convince you of anything, maybe you're one of those individuals who we need to believe in a kind of humanitarian idealism, but I really don't see much utility in failing to call out self-righteousness (regardless of the belief system), and it seems pretty clear that you've climbed up on a rather high horse here. I don't know the motives of those who downvoted you, but I can give a couple.
 
Maybe I shouldn't be trying to convince you of anything, maybe you're one of those individuals who we need to believe in a kind of humanitarian idealism, but I really don't see much utility in failing to call out self-righteousness (regardless of the belief system), and it seems pretty clear that you've climbed up on a rather high horse here. I don't know the motives of those who downvoted you, but I can give a couple.
 
One: "if you've ever been around children, you'd understand that they simply determine their identity from their surroundings."
 
One: "if you've ever been around children, you'd understand that they simply determine their identity from their surroundings."
'''Sounds like Skinner-style behaviorism to me (i.e. false as stated).''' Everyone knows it's more complicated than that, and none of us know GG Allin's whole story. Furthermore, his influences are irrelevant; MrSacTickler opposed GG's actions and would likely still oppose them regardless of the backstory. The underlying causes of behaviors don't negate their effect or whether others will be disgusted with them.
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Sounds like Skinner-style behaviorism to me (i.e. false as stated). Everyone knows it's more complicated than that, and none of us know GG Allin's whole story. Furthermore, his influences are irrelevant; MrSacTickler opposed GG's actions and would likely still oppose them regardless of the backstory. The underlying causes of behaviors don't negate their effect or whether others will be disgusted with them.
 
Two: the psych major puffery. You seem to think your opinion here is more valid than others. It appears that you believe this because of your academic training in psych, which suggests that you believe your opinion is rooted in objectivity while others are rooted in frivolous or subjective concerns. MrSacTickler's complaint was of personal revulsion, so whatever objective measures you think are relevant are most certainly not.
 
Two: the psych major puffery. You seem to think your opinion here is more valid than others. It appears that you believe this because of your academic training in psych, which suggests that you believe your opinion is rooted in objectivity while others are rooted in frivolous or subjective concerns. MrSacTickler's complaint was of personal revulsion, so whatever objective measures you think are relevant are most certainly not.
 
Strict reading: MrSacTickler is grossed out by GG Allin's behavior. Not in the realm of objective reasoning.
 
Strict reading: MrSacTickler is grossed out by GG Allin's behavior. Not in the realm of objective reasoning.
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In neither case are your psych credentials needed, desired, or in any way useful. Posting them comes across as pure puffery, and your failure to understand the appropriate context in which to draw evidence from psychology (note: NOT when challenging a highly subjective opinion) further provokes annoyance and ire.
 
In neither case are your psych credentials needed, desired, or in any way useful. Posting them comes across as pure puffery, and your failure to understand the appropriate context in which to draw evidence from psychology (note: NOT when challenging a highly subjective opinion) further provokes annoyance and ire.
 
Finally, this: "And nice job being mature about this and calling me an idiot. That makes your opinion a million times more valid."
 
Finally, this: "And nice job being mature about this and calling me an idiot. That makes your opinion a million times more valid."
'''Opinions are subjective responses. They are always trivially valid.''' _it_was_me called you an idiot because he/she disagrees with your mindset. You're the only person in this exchange who suggested that anyone else's opinion was invalid. You seem to derive the perceived authority to make this judgment from your psych major.
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Opinions are subjective responses. They are always trivially valid. _it_was_me called you an idiot because he/she disagrees with your mindset. You're the only person in this exchange who suggested that anyone else's opinion was invalid. You seem to derive the perceived authority to make this judgment from your psych major.
 
In short, you were dismissed because your post was preachy and completely off the mark. I pointed out the psych major bit because it reflected the most glaring problem with your post. Most would rather downvote than type out a long response like this one, and so would I most of the time." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/z8rev/theres_this_fun_little_tradition_people_have_when/c62puko?context=3 2012])
 
In short, you were dismissed because your post was preachy and completely off the mark. I pointed out the psych major bit because it reflected the most glaring problem with your post. Most would rather downvote than type out a long response like this one, and so would I most of the time." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/z8rev/theres_this_fun_little_tradition_people_have_when/c62puko?context=3 2012])
  
 
* "I am the eggman." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/z8rev/theres_this_fun_little_tradition_people_have_when/c62pvmu?context=3 2012])
 
* "I am the eggman." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/z8rev/theres_this_fun_little_tradition_people_have_when/c62pvmu?context=3 2012])
  
* '''"Pretending to be an idiot: the lowest form of trolling."''' ([http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/z93mz/paul_thomas_anderson_and_joaquin_phoenix_on_the/c62rbyb?context=3 2012])
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* "Pretending to be an idiot: the lowest form of trolling." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/z93mz/paul_thomas_anderson_and_joaquin_phoenix_on_the/c62rbyb?context=3 2012])
  
 
* "One obvious problem is that the types things that disrupt linguistics discussion are rather multifarious. However, I think it's fairly easy to boil down the groups of people who provoke such disruptions into a handful of types:
 
* "One obvious problem is that the types things that disrupt linguistics discussion are rather multifarious. However, I think it's fairly easy to boil down the groups of people who provoke such disruptions into a handful of types:
'''The Clueless: These are the people who simply cannot understand what linguistics is or how its methods work.''' However well-intentioned they might be, they can't really understand thoughtful answers to their questions and will never contribute much to the conversation beyond, "wow, languages are so complicated." Trying to educate them might make a linguist feel warm and fuzzy inside, but intellectually the endeavor is rather pointless.
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The Clueless: These are the people who simply cannot understand what linguistics is or how its methods work. However well-intentioned they might be, they can't really understand thoughtful answers to their questions and will never contribute much to the conversation beyond, "wow, languages are so complicated." Trying to educate them might make a linguist feel warm and fuzzy inside, but intellectually the endeavor is rather pointless.
'''The Precious: These are the polyglot-style narcissists, and more generally the people (mostly students) who are desperately seeking expertise in something, anything really as long as it's technical-sounding, and so latch onto linguistics because it impresses the scientifically uninitiated while remaining obscure enough within both the humanities and the sciences as to remain foreign to well-educated people who might challenge woo and junk science in other academic areas.''' These people very often fail to understand basic premises of scientific thought and inundate discussions with precious anecdotes about how they speak a certain way, or how they find some construction the professor (or redditor) has starred to be grammatical in language x, and so on. Their primary purpose is not to learn or contribute intellectually honest interest, but to feel special. Moreover, these people often fail to realize how transparent they are, and can be fairly aggressive.
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The Precious: These are the polyglot-style narcissists, and more generally the people (mostly students) who are desperately seeking expertise in something, anything really as long as it's technical-sounding, and so latch onto linguistics because it impresses the scientifically uninitiated while remaining obscure enough within both the humanities and the sciences as to remain foreign to well-educated people who might challenge woo and junk science in other academic areas. These people very often fail to understand basic premises of scientific thought and inundate discussions with precious anecdotes about how they speak a certain way, or how they find some construction the professor (or redditor) has starred to be grammatical in language x, and so on. Their primary purpose is not to learn or contribute intellectually honest interest, but to feel special. Moreover, these people often fail to realize how transparent they are, and can be fairly aggressive.
'''The Chauvinists: These are the people who want to claim language for their "side" of the science|humanities line, so to speak, and tend to dismiss linguistics as a field altogether (or to a very large extent). There are the scientific chauvinists as well as the humanities chauvinists, and both are equally irritating in their own ways.''' The scientific chauvinist might goad you into arguments about animal communication and primates, while the humanities chauvinist might decide to wage a war on gendered grammar. Sometimes, they even use their naive understanding of areas that aren't their specialties (e.g. scientific type arguing from a humanities standpoint and vice versa) to argue about a field they didn't properly understand from the perspective of their own specialty. Little can be done with them.
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The Chauvinists: These are the people who want to claim language for their "side" of the science|humanities line, so to speak, and tend to dismiss linguistics as a field altogether (or to a very large extent). There are the scientific chauvinists as well as the humanities chauvinists, and both are equally irritating in their own ways. The scientific chauvinist might goad you into arguments about animal communication and primates, while the humanities chauvinist might decide to wage a war on gendered grammar. Sometimes, they even use their naive understanding of areas that aren't their specialties (e.g. scientific type arguing from a humanities standpoint and vice versa) to argue about a field they didn't properly understand from the perspective of their own specialty. Little can be done with them.
'''The Misguided: These are by far the most hopeful group.''' Scientists, artistic types, and laymen who've simply been told things that aren't quite right about language (or who've bought into some form of romanticized linguistic woo) and will modify their stance in a reasonable fashion if shown why what they believe doesn't make sense. A lot of nat sci and cog sci people fall under this header.
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The Misguided: These are by far the most hopeful group. Scientists, artistic types, and laymen who've simply been told things that aren't quite right about language (or who've bought into some form of romanticized linguistic woo) and will modify their stance in a reasonable fashion if shown why what they believe doesn't make sense. A lot of nat sci and cog sci people fall under this header.
'''The big problem is classifying a person based on very little data.''' Sometimes a pushy person who seems to fit the bill of an anti-linguistics chauvinist will turn out to be open to corrections. '''Sometimes a person who seems genuinely engaged will turn out to be an intellectually dishonest little snowflake. I can't speak from much experience myself, but I think it's reasonable to say that linguistics professors have to be some of the most harried academic scientists out there. Seeing them swallow their contempt while listening to some bullshitting student ramble on about how he forms his r's like Spanish speakers do, then just sort of smile and say that there's a lot of individual variation and that linguists work with what they see in most speakers is grating even in a second-hand way.'''
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The big problem is classifying a person based on very little data. Sometimes a pushy person who seems to fit the bill of an anti-linguistics chauvinist will turn out to be open to corrections. Sometimes a person who seems genuinely engaged will turn out to be an intellectually dishonest little snowflake. I can't speak from much experience myself, but I think it's reasonable to say that linguistics professors have to be some of the most harried academic scientists out there. Seeing them swallow their contempt while listening to some bullshitting student ramble on about how heforms his r's like Spanish speakers do, then just sort of smile and say that there's a lot of individual variation and that linguists work with what they see in most speakers is grating even in a second-hand way.
 
Online, we have the opportunity to cut out the perpetually undesirable elements of the crowd and hopefully cut to the chase a bit. There are some false positives, but do those really outweigh the gains made in scientific integrity? I'm not all that convinced myself." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/zc5hx/can_we_discuss_something/c63dfhv?context=3 2012])
 
Online, we have the opportunity to cut out the perpetually undesirable elements of the crowd and hopefully cut to the chase a bit. There are some false positives, but do those really outweigh the gains made in scientific integrity? I'm not all that convinced myself." ([http://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/zc5hx/can_we_discuss_something/c63dfhv?context=3 2012])

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